Great post! Would love it if you made a more in-depth post about each Slavic group (East, West and South). It would be especially interesting if you could look more at the infighting between the Slavic kingdoms from the Middle Ages.
You write "The people of the Fatyanovo-Balanovo culture carried lineages which show that they are the ancestors of the Aryans and the Iranians, but not the Slavs or the Balts." Recent research indicates differently.
I didn't know Uralic peoples such as the Mordvins were consolidating and successfully resisting Slavic expansion until the Mongols showed up. I assumed states like Perm had previously always been dominated by the Rus'.
quite a bit of Russian history & prehistory has never been translated into English, & is poorly known even within Russia. The "decolonialists" & their predecessors like Pokrovsky claim to recenter history around the various subaltern or peripheral peoples, but their approach typically maintains Russocentric narratives while obnoxiously inverting previously implicit values judgements. Result is that very few people try to understand the Finno-Ugrian, Dnieper Baltic, and Turkic polities in their own terms.
what I find interesting is that we can actually trace back germanic-slavic armed conflicts back up to the 2nd century with the arrival of the Goths, we are talking of more or less 1800 years of intermittent warfare until 1945 (and lets us hope that will be the last). I think that outside of Mongol-Chinese wars is impossible to see such a protracted conflict
The same applies to Slavic-Slavic, Germanic-Germanic, Germanic-Romance and Romanve-Romance conflicts as well though. The biggest enemies of the HRE statelets were the states themselves after all...
interethnic conflict is present in all groups, but rarely goes genocidal, but persistent conflicts about land between different ethnic groups....
Compare that with the almost settled Latin-Germanic borders post Charlemagne. Neither the French medieval kingdoms considered a possibility to rake Rhin fiefdoms to make space for French peasants nor the Habsburg planed to depopulated the po valley to expand the Austrian hold, but land seizures against Poles, Eastern Slavs, Czechs and south Slavs were real Germanic policy from the Danish expansion in the Baltic to the Austrian painter, with the equivalent Slavic pushbacks each time.
I don't want to paint as forever war either. Nietzsche claimed Slavic ancestry, Catherine the great was German by birth, but still, 1700ish years of prolonged conflict with long ceasefires is brutal.
With regard to the present; the current American President and more importantly the nation that elected him are interested in rebuilding America, our foreign policy is centered around America and that goal, and the foreign policy around the Americas.
We have no interest in drying up the Slavic streams, indeed we’re making peace to retrench as much as possible to the Hemisphere of the Americas.
That leaves Europe, which seems to be deciding to commit suicide by immigration and destroying their own economy.
So I shouldn’t worry about us, although this Ukraine criminal insanity is taking a long time to extract from… for internal reasons.
Then again the Ukrainians are Slavs… and this is going to have to be worked out between Slavs.
Thank you for this. As an American, for most of my life, my knowledge of world history was focused on western Europe, Rome, Greece, and Egypt. I have a good understanding of the dynamics of the Ottoman Empire and passing knowledge of the break up of Genghis Khan’s empire but little knowledge of what you have just described. This helps fills big gap, and explain why Putin talks about 800 years of Russian history.
Great post! Would love it if you made a more in-depth post about each Slavic group (East, West and South). It would be especially interesting if you could look more at the infighting between the Slavic kingdoms from the Middle Ages.
Same here!
A tour de force. Well done
Tremendous work. Thank you so much.
Thank you Nemetz. Very cool.
You write "The people of the Fatyanovo-Balanovo culture carried lineages which show that they are the ancestors of the Aryans and the Iranians, but not the Slavs or the Balts." Recent research indicates differently.
This book (https://brill.com/display/title/72253?srsltid=AfmBOopo6saxCywro72ra102yA9CkQu_fMikU4ztWzvA-11oTgnaL21f) argues that the Fatyanovo culture was the setting for a shared Balto-Slavic-Indo-Iranian linguistic community. ADNA also points to further linkages between Indo-Iranian and Balto-Slavic branches beyond both emerging out of CWC.
Excellent work, Peter.
Excellent!!!
I didn't know Uralic peoples such as the Mordvins were consolidating and successfully resisting Slavic expansion until the Mongols showed up. I assumed states like Perm had previously always been dominated by the Rus'.
quite a bit of Russian history & prehistory has never been translated into English, & is poorly known even within Russia. The "decolonialists" & their predecessors like Pokrovsky claim to recenter history around the various subaltern or peripheral peoples, but their approach typically maintains Russocentric narratives while obnoxiously inverting previously implicit values judgements. Result is that very few people try to understand the Finno-Ugrian, Dnieper Baltic, and Turkic polities in their own terms.
Great work!
Thank you
what I find interesting is that we can actually trace back germanic-slavic armed conflicts back up to the 2nd century with the arrival of the Goths, we are talking of more or less 1800 years of intermittent warfare until 1945 (and lets us hope that will be the last). I think that outside of Mongol-Chinese wars is impossible to see such a protracted conflict
The same applies to Slavic-Slavic, Germanic-Germanic, Germanic-Romance and Romanve-Romance conflicts as well though. The biggest enemies of the HRE statelets were the states themselves after all...
interethnic conflict is present in all groups, but rarely goes genocidal, but persistent conflicts about land between different ethnic groups....
Compare that with the almost settled Latin-Germanic borders post Charlemagne. Neither the French medieval kingdoms considered a possibility to rake Rhin fiefdoms to make space for French peasants nor the Habsburg planed to depopulated the po valley to expand the Austrian hold, but land seizures against Poles, Eastern Slavs, Czechs and south Slavs were real Germanic policy from the Danish expansion in the Baltic to the Austrian painter, with the equivalent Slavic pushbacks each time.
I don't want to paint as forever war either. Nietzsche claimed Slavic ancestry, Catherine the great was German by birth, but still, 1700ish years of prolonged conflict with long ceasefires is brutal.
Akshually the earliest name of modern Gdańsk is Gdansc not Danzig, thank you
Excellent.
With regard to the present; the current American President and more importantly the nation that elected him are interested in rebuilding America, our foreign policy is centered around America and that goal, and the foreign policy around the Americas.
We have no interest in drying up the Slavic streams, indeed we’re making peace to retrench as much as possible to the Hemisphere of the Americas.
That leaves Europe, which seems to be deciding to commit suicide by immigration and destroying their own economy.
So I shouldn’t worry about us, although this Ukraine criminal insanity is taking a long time to extract from… for internal reasons.
Then again the Ukrainians are Slavs… and this is going to have to be worked out between Slavs.
Good luck.
Good synopsys of slav history slightly betrayed by weird and unnecessary hot takes on modern history at the end.
it was deliberate - I want readers to understand that the conflicts and migrations mentioned earlier in the post were just as simplified
Thank you for this. As an American, for most of my life, my knowledge of world history was focused on western Europe, Rome, Greece, and Egypt. I have a good understanding of the dynamics of the Ottoman Empire and passing knowledge of the break up of Genghis Khan’s empire but little knowledge of what you have just described. This helps fills big gap, and explain why Putin talks about 800 years of Russian history.
As a Serb, I think this is fundamentally wrong account